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#51 2012-02-27 05:45:08

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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

Argembarger wrote:

::fallout: equestria, a fallout: equestria side story, and past sins listed in OP::

Dang, this could've been a good thread.

An utterly smashed character wearing a crown of whiskey bottles riding on a flight of Alicorns and playing some sweeping classical music at dawn after shooting up a lot of crap and driving a character from another fic (Littlepip) absolutely nuts with her antics too awesome for this thread? All hail the Whiskey Queen! *Hic* Long live the Queen! tongue


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#52 2012-02-27 08:26:05

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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

I read the first five chapters (with the introduction and prologue each being counted as a chapter because seriously? an introduction /and/ a prologue?) and pretty much lost interest and stopped there.

Fallout is a grimdark setting that's trying really really hard not to be grimdark, and it becomes charming and memorable for it. And I'm talking about the original two. I'm not counting Fallout 3 here. It was made by totally different people and doesn't even really feel like Fallout anymore, just Elder Scrolls with guns and radiation.

Fallout: Equestria fails, in my opinion, to preserve the whimsy of Fallout or the whimsy of ponies, and just becomes this bland grimdark thing. I love Fallout, and I love ponies, and I just couldn't care about this story.

Honestly, as good a writer as Kkat may or may not be, this story is 49 chapters long (with an introduction, and a prologue, and an epilogue, and an afterwords) I feel like that's probably 30 chapters longer than it needed to be. It certainly did not need to be a novel-length magnum opus.

The story was started pretty aimlessly, and exploded into popularity. Many of those chapters were written because: popularity and demand, which isn't in and of itself a bad thing, but I've been informed by plenty of sources (people who enjoy the story) that the quality of the story suffers more and more the further it goes along. Plus, it gave Kkat a pretty big head, which I can't condone, either.

And now it's got side-stories? Some of them with multiple chapters and huge fanbases? All of it within a ridiculously massive fanbase for this single story, willing to vote-bomb writers who say anything not glowingly positive about Kkat or Fallout: Equestria? (it has happened, and I would personally be proud to be the target of that kind of mass-idiocy)

All of this is just my opinion, of course. The story just wasn't very interesting, and didn't entertain or hook me. It certainly was not amazing enough to justify the insane cult it's generated around it.


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#53 2012-02-27 08:28:04

chaoticpix93
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

Honestly I look at Fallout: Equestria and I feel like, will I be able to finish it? Something about the storyline just don't appeal to me. I'm not about to invest time in order to read it. I might this summer with the break between seasons, but probably not. (If anything I should work on my OWN! Including my retake of the Ponies/Portal crossover.)


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#54 2012-02-27 14:14:40

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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

Argembarger: Your thoughts about Antipodes? I haven't read it yet, but it's another one of those really really really long stories like FO:E, Past Sins, etc. that a lot of people tend to gush over. It doesn't seem to get nearly as much attention as those two, though, so my hipster senses are twitching that it might actually be good.

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#55 2012-02-27 15:27:52

Argembarger
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

Starshine: If the fandom has passed it over, it probably is.

Past Sins, well, I just refuse to read that one. I hate the fact that it took literal hordes of editors constantly slaving away at every chapter to get it to a semi-readable state.

I'm boycotting it, let's say.


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#56 2012-02-27 20:38:24

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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

Argembarger: Meh. I'll admit that F:OE could have probably been cut by a lot - but a lot of those extra bits are fun! I do think you may be missing the point of the fic though.

While there is a lot of grimdark, you also see occasional bits of whimsy and good as you go along in the story. Mostly these good bits are seen in a few of the memory orbs showing pre-war Equestria and some bits in the present which show hope for the future. A large part of the story is about how Equestria and the ponies eventually fell little by little (often through good intentions) into a horrible uncaring and hateful society (even the screwed up societies in the stables are a mirror of this as the experiments were based on good intentions to try to make a better future Equestria). The other large part is finding the good that is deep down and going on to try and help make things better despite mistakes because giving up to wallow in one's self solves nothing and can in fact make the situation worse (Celestia is an exclamation point here). One has to dare to care, so to speak, taking others' feelings into consideration, and doing what is right even if it is unpopular. Fallout seems to be kind of used as a metaphorical window dressing representing the utter break down of society to tell the true meat of the tale and it diverges heavily from Fallout's feel because of its themes (and also because the world of Equestria has a lot of fantasy in its roots since Faust used LotR, Narnia, mythology, and a few fantasy novels in originally creating the setting. One can't really get rid of them with out tossing out the core of Equestria as well).

I think it caught on because it is kind of a zeitgeist that mirrored how a good number of Bronies felt; the world is uncaring and in a metaphorical shambles (what with the economic situation and exploding political tensions) and this fic presented a character who rises above the ever-present sense of anomie (represented by the wasteland) and is inspired by visions of the old pre-conflict Equestria (our ponies) to try to restore the good using the Mane Six and pre-corruption Equestria as a model (for some reason a song is coming to mind here tongue). Along the way LittlePip sees how good intentions and misunderstandings led to the corruption and destruction of old Equestrian society and learns from them and he also learns that even if one makes mistakes and fails causing hurt then one shouldn't give up but instead one should try harder to not make the mistake again in the future. Additionally, one should try to make up for the damage by doing good and continue by concentrating on the good that is inside us all.

As for the side fics: I've only really read Project Horizons which has similar themes but tends to have a more limited and personal scope. All of the mane characters have deep psychological wounds and the core focus is not on the individual vs. the sense of anomie in society (although that is still a major theme), the focus instead is more on dealing with one's own personal trauma and emotions (punctuated by light-hearted moments of awesome comic relief like the 'Queen Whiskey' bit). One deals with the emotional storms by finding strength in oneself through knowing one's self and the support of others. Another major theme is the dangers of repressing hurt, pain, and bad emotions until they explode and cause harm. On a certain level, I kind of find reading it a little therapeutic and kind of identify with Blackjack - although I've experienced nowhere near the sheer level of trauma she goes through - Blackjack is often the 'strong one' in public for others (heck, a former roommate openly said I was the person who most 'had their shit together' and I've ended up playing therapist to a bunch of people) but deep down inside Blackjack has a fair share of repressed guilt and trauma. Repressing her guilt, emotions, and trauma nearly destroys Blackjack (several times) and it is only when she starts to know herself and accept the guilt, emotions, and trauma that she can begin to heal with the help of her friends.

/Why does everything I write end up turning into Walls of Text™?


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#57 2012-02-27 21:52:46

Argembarger
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

The point of any fanfiction is entertainment, which is why I couldn't get into FO:E. It didn't entertain me, and I wasn't willing to give it more than a few chapters to try.

I also highly doubt that the majority of the fans have dissected it to the level that you have. I'm willing to bet that for the majority of them, it's just "Ponies! Fallout! Darker and Edgier! yaay"

But even if that's not so, I'd be very dubious about calling it More Than Just A Fanfic. That implies that Kkat is More Than Just an Author.

Bottom line: I don't know whether the fic actually HAS a point or not, because it wasn't able to get me to keep reading past Chapter 3. For me, therein lies its failures. The execution.

And the foaming-at-the-mouth fanbase doesn't endear me to it, either.

I'm tempted to write a fic with the tags "Fallout Equestria Isn't That Great" just to watch the downvotes roll in like a tidal wave.

EDIT:
For the record, I respect your right to enjoy the fic. No one gets to choose what they like or don't like.

I'm merely making my contrary opinion known, because it seems to be rather in the minority.

Last edited by Argembarger (2012-02-27 22:03:00)


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#58 2012-02-27 22:38:15

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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

I personally found Fo:E rather entertaining, but to each their own. And yeah, a portion of the fanbase is probably like that but I do like to think that another large portion got into it because of the themes of the fic (same as I like to think a portion of bronies are attracted to MLP:FiM for more than just the memes - but maybe I'm too optimistic here).

Maybe I should clarify also in saying that it isn't a zeitgeist in and of itself but captures a lot of the spirit of Ponies and the feelings of more than a few Bronies. These themes of redemption and trying to do what's right even if we made mistakes in the past are also very much present in the show (most notably in the figure of Princess Luna but also in many of the lessons of the show - we fuck up from time to time but we learn from our mistakes to be better people) and it is probably part of the appeal of the show and its no surprise that these messages are echoed in some of the more popular fics. It's also in my opinion what made Past Sins fairly popular, even if it isn't written that well, it's a story of redemption and finding the good deep down (along with defying the social conventions that try to turn one's self into an uncaring being just because society says you should be like that).

At least that's what I think about it but I am probably also a bit of an over-educated and partly pretentious jackass who has to overanalyze everything. tongue

Edit:

Meh, I understand your opinion and of course I respect it. I didn't want to give the impression that I did not. I however do enjoy debating this stuff (heck, it's part of the reason why I originally started this thread!) and also see the last line above the Edit. smile


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#59 2012-02-27 23:45:43

Argembarger
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

I could rant for a long time about fanfiction. I'm not even sure why I'm an EqD prereader at this point. I have no capacity to suspend my disbelief, I am pretty much unable to read for pleasure anymore and I'm a deconstructionalist bastard.

Pointing out the flaws in terrible submitted fics that I have to preread used to bring some enjoyment at least, but now that's fading, too.

"Bad" fics are at least humorous through a combination of ineptitude and trying too hard

"Good" fics are just boring because there's little for me to dig into or complain about and I'm very rarely entertained, anyway

But even with the badfics, I just sit there and bear witness to the tragedy of dozens and dozens of writers being told that they're amazing by legions of hugboxing fans on FIMFiction.net and FanFiction.net, get their ego inflated, post a fic up for review and get hideously offended when told that their work is chock full of problems.
Cue ranting about "style" and how the editors/proofreaders are "dumb because my friends said it was great"
Cue reposting the same crap, never bothering to fix mistakes because "that's just how I write and if you don't like it you don't have to read it"
Cue more blind hugboxing from readers who I suspect literally have never read a story they didn't love
ad infinitum

It's really terribly discouraging.


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#60 2012-02-28 00:14:30

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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

The thing that bothers me a little is that I know there are some of these fanfic authors that are getting regular ego-strokes from readers, start thinking that they might have a shot at getting published, and then they're in for a horrendously crushing reality check.

But only a little.

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#61 2012-02-28 00:21:00

DashAttack
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

I know this is probably irrelevant to state at this point, but I tend to avoid most fanfiction as it is and crossovers are just so far over that line that I cannot ever bother to find it in myself to read them. For reasons Argembarger stated, you're trying to potentially force two separate themes into each other and make it something it just can't be. It's one reason that I cannot bring myself to read FO:E (aside from it being so god damn long; I just don't have the attention span).

I can't bring myself to read Past Sins for entirely different reasons, though. Mostly because, from what I know of the story, it just involves too many elements and character introductions that are not in tune with the show (which is really the problem I have with nearly all fan fiction as a default) and would never actually happen within the canon of the show.

On the other hand, I really liked My Little Dashie. I'm not sure what that says about me, but I just liked the incredibly bizarre premise of that fic (even if it did take me months to finally care to try it). Besides, I feel that it was a cleverly crafted trollfic, and that amuses me.

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#62 2012-02-28 00:21:04

Argembarger
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

Personally, I prefer the ones that get really embarrassed at the poor reception of their fic

If someone legitimately wants to improve, there's always hope


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#63 2012-02-28 00:23:58

DashAttack
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

Starshine wrote:

The thing that bothers me a little is that I know there are some of these fanfic authors that are getting regular ego-strokes from readers, start thinking that they might have a shot at getting published, and then they're in for a horrendously crushing reality check.

But only a little.

Also, this. I actually write (yet another reason why I probably don't care for fanfiction) and I have very, very little hope of ever being good enough to be published (unless I do it myself via e-publishing).

It's just, I dunno, weird seeing people that think writing fanfiction is any way to get their foot in the door.

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#64 2012-02-28 00:29:06

Argembarger
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

DashAttack wrote:
Starshine wrote:

The thing that bothers me a little is that I know there are some of these fanfic authors that are getting regular ego-strokes from readers, start thinking that they might have a shot at getting published, and then they're in for a horrendously crushing reality check.

But only a little.

Also, this. I actually write (yet another reason why I probably don't care for fanfiction) and I have very, very little hope of ever being good enough to be published (unless I do it myself via e-publishing).

It's just, I dunno, weird seeing people that think writing fanfiction is any way to get their foot in the door.

It's an interesting tradeoff.

You can certainly get your name out there if you're a talented enough writer.

At the same time, the point of fanfiction is that it's inherently very lazy. You're relying on an audience that is already completely familiar, accepting, and in love with the setting and characters you're writing about.

All you have to do is spin something halfway decent out of the intellectual property, and popularity ahoy.

And then you link them to your original settings and characters and actual real fiction, presumably.

Or you don't, and keep writing fanfiction forever.

As long as you're having fun and not a pretentious douche who thinks your fanfiction is the hottest shit around, I'm cool with anything


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#65 2012-02-28 00:33:18

DashAttack
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

Argembarger wrote:
DashAttack wrote:
Starshine wrote:

The thing that bothers me a little is that I know there are some of these fanfic authors that are getting regular ego-strokes from readers, start thinking that they might have a shot at getting published, and then they're in for a horrendously crushing reality check.

But only a little.

Also, this. I actually write (yet another reason why I probably don't care for fanfiction) and I have very, very little hope of ever being good enough to be published (unless I do it myself via e-publishing).

It's just, I dunno, weird seeing people that think writing fanfiction is any way to get their foot in the door.

It's an interesting tradeoff.

You can certainly get your name out there if you're a talented enough writer.

At the same time, the point of fanfiction is that it's inherently very lazy. You're relying on an audience that is already completely familiar, accepting, and in love with the setting and characters you're writing about.

All you have to do is spin something halfway decent out of the intellectual property, and popularity ahoy.

And then you link them to your original settings and characters and actual real fiction, presumably.

Or you don't, and keep writing fanfiction forever.

As long as you're having fun and not a pretentious douche who thinks your fanfiction is the hottest shit around, I'm cool with anything

Makes sense, but I don't believe I have seen that yet from any of the popular fic writers, which is why I'm confounded by this.

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#66 2012-02-28 00:38:44

Argembarger
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

You haven't seen actual not-pony stuff from writers?

Or you haven't seen them be pretentious douches?

The latter is 9999999x more common than the former.


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#67 2012-02-28 00:39:31

Midnight_Quill
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

DashAttack wrote:
Argembarger wrote:
DashAttack wrote:

Also, this. I actually write (yet another reason why I probably don't care for fanfiction) and I have very, very little hope of ever being good enough to be published (unless I do it myself via e-publishing).

It's just, I dunno, weird seeing people that think writing fanfiction is any way to get their foot in the door.

It's an interesting tradeoff.

You can certainly get your name out there if you're a talented enough writer.

At the same time, the point of fanfiction is that it's inherently very lazy. You're relying on an audience that is already completely familiar, accepting, and in love with the setting and characters you're writing about.

All you have to do is spin something halfway decent out of the intellectual property, and popularity ahoy.

And then you link them to your original settings and characters and actual real fiction, presumably.

Or you don't, and keep writing fanfiction forever.

As long as you're having fun and not a pretentious douche who thinks your fanfiction is the hottest shit around, I'm cool with anything

Makes sense, but I don't believe I have seen that yet from any of the popular fic writers, which is why I'm confounded by this.

I am an aspiring writer myself. I write fanfiction as a way to practice my writing skills, and a way to get away from the normal work I sally have to do. You can call it lazy, mostly because the world and characters are already created, but it helps me learn how to describe better. The audience I am "publishing" these stories to already know the characters and hwo they look, so when I do something poorly, it is pointed out and I can fix it.

My two cents.


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#68 2012-02-28 00:45:13

Argembarger
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

Don't take "lazy" as an insult. I write, too.

It's like this. If all fiction had to be comprised of original content, 98% of current writers wouldn't be.


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#69 2012-02-28 00:50:20

Midnight_Quill
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

Argembarger wrote:

Don't take "lazy" as an insult. I write, too.

It's like this. If all fiction had to be comprised of original content, 98% of current writers wouldn't be.

Then the saying stands true: There is no such thing as an original idea.

I didn't take it as an insult though. I find the idea using another's characters as a challenge. I also agree that a majority of the fanfics out there are... not what I would call good stories... But a few have actually inspired me to do better and try and be a better writer.


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#70 2012-02-28 00:53:32

DashAttack
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

Argembarger wrote:

You haven't seen actual not-pony stuff from writers?

Or you haven't seen them be pretentious douches?

The latter is 9999999x more common than the former.

Both, but I don't do much digging on either subjects. If I even bother to at all.

Midnight_Quill wrote:

I am an aspiring writer myself. I write fanfiction as a way to practice my writing skills, and a way to get away from the normal work I sally have to do. You can call it lazy, mostly because the world and characters are already created, but it helps me learn how to describe better. The audience I am "publishing" these stories to already know the characters and hwo they look, so when I do something poorly, it is pointed out and I can fix it.

My two cents.

I don't mind that, really. I don't inherently dislike fanfic writers (or fanfiction itself, really; I just can't bring myself to read it most of the time), and it is a viable form of practice, despite being "lazy". Fanfiction serves its purpose perfectly fine, which is to better yourself using a source that will get you noticed. It's just that I don't like the purpose when it gets bastardized. Though, in the end, if I want well crafted stories about the stuff I love, I'll go to the source (except on extremely rare occasions).

I am far from innocent here, though. I have created a Soul Calibur fanfic as well as a World of Warcraft fanfic (which was discarded early on for a reason I am about to state), but never gave them any more than a passing thought. The reason why I personally dislike writing fanfiction nearly coincides with why I can't read it: everything is already constructed for me. It's like the building blocks and instruction manual are handed to me, and then I'm told that I can build it any way I want as long as the parts fit the way they're supposed to. Not much fun when I'm constricted and can't build whatever I want.

Edit: For clarity, and because my reading comprehension is shit tonight for some reason.

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#71 2012-02-28 01:05:16

DashAttack
Not REDACTED

Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

Argembarger wrote:

Don't take "lazy" as an insult. I write, too.

It's like this. If all fiction had to be comprised of original content, 98% of current writers wouldn't be.

Was trying to hold off on a double post, but fuck it. I'm too lazy to edit the other one.

Pretty much this. My first "real" fictional work is a huge, bastardized biblical allegory. It literally would not exist without using a fable from The Bible.

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#72 2012-02-28 01:50:52

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Starshine Trotter

Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

This is sort of why I don't write anything "serious". I've had plenty of ideas, but I don't want to pursue them because I know that they'll just turn out feeling ... derivative.

I've tried writing original stories a couple times, but I never get past a chapter or two before either being annoyed by my writing or confused by the horribly complex storyline. (I once started a story where the main character is being pursued by himself from the future, and the only way to live is to go back in time and kill himself... and that's also why the future version of himself is trying to kill himself. I could understand it only in short bursts, before my head started hurting.)

(And this is wildly offtopic, but I seriously don't understand that general apprehension toward double-posts.)

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#73 2012-02-28 02:03:37

Argembarger
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

they make you look like y


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#74 2012-02-28 02:04:35

Argembarger
Pizza hut Waffles

Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

ou be trippin


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#75 2012-02-28 19:16:12

chaoticpix93
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Re: The Quills & Sofas FanFic Pub

It's like what I told Cirrus at the New Years Eve party. You guys are forced to read the ENTIRE slushpile that most legitimate publishers just shovel into a room to be buried until some unlucky intern comes along to read them/submit rejection letters. That's why I feel for you guys the most. Also, I bet submissions get surprizingly large in December/January. (So many people writing fanfiction for NaNoWriMo and don't edit a damned thing...)

I'm going to say this again, writing FanFiction is hard. You have to make sure you work within canon and you have to make sure you have your characterizations correct. Otherwise you're screwed from the first page onward.  Just because it's a pre-estabolished universe doesn't mean you can go willy-nilly with it like you can if you'd created your own world.

/rant

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